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Thread: ich in my clown loach tank

  1. #1
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    ich in my clown loach tank

    Help, please.

    So I got 20 cardinals 2 weeks back, put them in a qt tank for a week, and then into the main tank (65G planted) with my clowns.
    And then a week later - boom - everyone has ich.
    It all happened in 2 days - from a couple spots to dozens or hundreds on everyone.

    All but 2 of the cardinals have died.
    I'm not sure if it's from ich, which in my previous experience isn't that fatal, that fast...
    Or me raising the temp from 78F to 84F inside 24hrs (I panic'd).
    In the past, just raising the temp made the ich go away on my clowns, but not this time.

    So, did a 15% wc and started treating with RID ICH yesterday.
    Did a 15% wc and treated again tonight.

    My largest clown (5.5") is now pretty weak.
    The 16 other clowns (2.5" to 5") are active and eating bloodworms, but she is not.
    Normally she is the most aggressive and greedy eater.

    I've got ich-x coming Friday, but am wondering if there's a better treatment or methodology I can use.
    I've also read about quinine sulfate being effective and safe.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Last edited by tw33kerloki; 10-23-2019 at 08:28 PM.

  2. #2
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    looking for advice on meds and water changes.
    thanks.

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    Moderator 2000 posts, Star SCAPEr Nick Shades's Avatar
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    So here is the deal. Whenever we advise treatment of a disease here, we need as many details as possible, including pictures of the affected fish.


    Please answer the following precisely. Write them down on a piece of paper so that you can respond to each one on in kind:

    1) size of your tank
    2) every species of fish and invertebrate in your tank
    3) type of heater and filter in your rack
    4) every plant and substrate of your tank.
    5) In focus pictures of all affected fish and other organisms of your tank.


    Be advised on the precision of these answers. Every answer is necessary if you want as many organisms in your tank to survive. Depending on what treatment is given can save one organism, and kill another.


    Also be advised : do not ever over medicate. You have tried one medicine already, so you need to carbon sponge and water change that completely out before you try another, or else, possibly cause poisoning.

    Be calm, and be precise.

  4. #4
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    1. JBJ flat panel AiO - 65 gallons, 36" finnex stingray LED, 12" finnex planted+ LED, florin volcanit rio substrate
    2. 17x clown loaches, 2x sterbai corydoras, 2x julii corydoras, 1x dwarf corydoras, 2x otocinclus, 1x 2" candy plecostomus, 8x ember tetras, 2x cardinal tetras
    3. 2x eheim jager 150W submersible heaters; AiO filter with 2x 396gal/hr. pumps, whisper air pump
    4. bacopa, anubias nana, anuias bart., java fern, rotala, sunset hygro, stargrass
    5. pics coming

    thanks!
    Last edited by tw33kerloki; 10-23-2019 at 09:14 PM.

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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    pics 3 and 4 are of the largest of my clowns.
    she's the most lethargic now, and shows less ich than some of the small clowns, but seems worse off.
    also looks like her eyes are showing fungus? cloudy, at least.
    I have 2-3 other small, somewhat lethargic clowns, the ones with lots of grains in the pic, that are breathing fast and less active.
    the remaining 13 clowns show from almost no ich to dozens of grains, but aside from flashing and scraping, are active and eating and behaving mostly normally.

    the Otos seem fine - a couple of grains of ich, but active and eating.
    the plec seems fine - lots of grains of ich, but active and eating
    the Embers show no discomfort and no ich
    the 2 remaining cardinals seem recovered, are active, eating, and darting about
    the cories are seemingly ok, with the julii's the worse off, but still active and eating, if a bit less active than normal

  8. #8
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    nitrate <20 ppm
    nitrite 0.5 ppm
    hardness 75 ppm
    chlorine 0 ppm
    alkalinity 80 ppm
    pH 7.0
    Last edited by tw33kerloki; 10-23-2019 at 09:12 PM.

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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    all the fish are still alive, save for the initial cardinals.
    the biggest clown is more active, swimming and her eyes are clearer.
    some of the clowns are showing more spots, and some less.
    but, worryingly, none of the clowns are taking eating pellet foods (spirulina and earthworms) anymore.
    not last night.
    not this morning.

  10. #10
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    have continued to do 15% wc and treat at 2/3 strength daily, but may skip treatment tonight, do another 15% wc tomorrow, and maybe the ich-x will show up and I can consider switching.
    should be same active ingredients, just different brands though...

  11. #11
    Moderator 2000 posts, Star SCAPEr Nick Shades's Avatar
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    I am about 90% sure that is Freshwater Ich. I would need to see it under a microscope to be positive.

    3 options. Read everything completely. Read disclaimer at the end.

    1) Best Option. Pull all fishies, put in your quarantine tank, and treat with cupramine at half dose for 7 days. If you are absolutely sure you have all fishies pulled, just let the tank run your DT for 7 days in their absence. FW Ich has to have a fish in order to survive for more than 3 days. It will clear itself out completely in one week. Raise temp to about 83 degrees in DT in order to expedite parasitic metabolism.

    2) 2nd best option (You don't have a quarantine tank). Treat DT with Cupramine at half dose. You will need to WC your entire tank several times until you get your meds you currently have down to about 3%. Treat it for 7 days. Cupramine kills almost all inverts, and essentially, will also kill your nitrogen cycle. it does not ussually kill your plants... ussually. After 7 days, water change at 50% twice a day for about 4 days. During treatment pull ALL Carbon, and ALL filtration media. ALL of it. Reintroduce all new filtration media (Even though none of it should be a problem), and all new Carbon just to soak up extra Copper, and get rid of your carbon once a week for 3 weeks.

    3) NUKE THE EARTH OPTION: Get formalin. This likely, will kill your plants. BUt it will absolutely kill the ich. It should also keep all of your fish alive. Keep an eye on your plecos. They sometimes react very poorly to Formalin.

    DISCLAIMER: Plecos and other scaleless fish (Otos) DO NOT LIKE COPPER BASED MEDICATIONS. Therefore, CUpramine is the necessity. It is chelated in a way that will not be as harsh to them. But you CANNOT dose more than half a dose -- Even at half a dose, it is ROUGH on them. BUT, you are trying to rid a disease. You can consider doing Cupramine at about a 1/4 Dose, but it loses efficacy below 1/2 dosage.

    Formalin on the other hand will work less agressively on the Plecos' systems.

    Other meds that have been known to work are malachite green (mardel), but I have no experience with it on Plecos, nor Planted tanks.

  12. #12
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    tgif so I have time to consider and implement any options.

    thank you so very much for taking the time to spell this all out.
    I will consider while I'm at work today and see what to do tonight and beyond.
    thank you!

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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr Travisdt's Avatar
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    Use a A LOT of Organic garlic (wholefood) and flatten and leave them in aquarium for 3 days. ( your room should smell it)

    Change 50 percent of water and repeat. Result in 10 days

    My way can save fish better than any medication I used in the past

    I

  14. #14
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    Well, the candy pleco didn't survive the night. Found him dead this morning. No other mortality.

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    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    and now a 3" clown has died and another 3" clown looks bad.
    the others look about the same as yesterday.
    did a 25% wc, holding the temp at 84F.
    waiting for my Cupramine, Cuprisorb and Cu testing kit to show up (Monday).

  16. #16
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    well, that 3" clown died too - 10/27/19 - overnight sometime.
    most of the others are eating, but a few, 3 or 4, are not.
    they're all pretty fat, so not liking the lack of appetite but they won't starve soon either.
    holding at 84F and will do another 25% wc today.

    starting to suspect the RID-ICH may have been old and denatured.
    stopped treatment Thursday night 10/24/19.
    looked weird - dark, dull green/gray instead of the food color green I'm used to seeing with malachite green... or am I miss-remembering what that looks like? it's been ages since I've had to treat.
    doing wc's and adding carbon bags back in to pull it out of the water, and will wait for Cupramine.
    read that formalin can go toxic when stored wrong or if old.
    I bought the RID-ICH at a lfs... it's a tiny little mom & pop in Cypress, and who knows how long they had it at the counter.

  17. #17
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    Hi Nick,

    Copramine arrived.
    It says to dose 1ml for every 10.5gal (sw) or 21gal (fw).
    Just confirming your note above... should I halve it again bc of the scaleless Clowns,... reduce to 1.5ml for my 65gal instead of 3.0ml?
    Going to do a 25% wc now ahead of treatment.
    Last edited by tw33kerloki; 10-28-2019 at 09:22 PM.

  18. #18
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    dosed 1.5mL Cupramine 2 days ago.
    25% wc right before, but no wc in past 2 days.

    a 4.5" clown died this morning - a really fat one that had been seemingly one of the healthier ones until the past 3-4 days.
    a 3.5" clown looks really bad - half-covered in ich and listless.
    two 3" clown look emaciated like they have skinny disease - one that I've treated before for that,... could be opportunistic and it came back while they were weakened - I'll worry about it later.
    but the rest look like they've stabilized, half look great, and all are eating again, especially live black worms.
    the 5.5" clown is eating and active, skinnier than before, but eyes are clear and she's definitely on the upswing.

    I may lose 1 or 2 more, but I think the rest are recovering.

  19. #19
    SCAPE Member SCAPEr tw33kerloki's Avatar
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    looks like everything's stabilized.
    only a couple of ich grains on the 2 remaining cardinals.
    only a little left on 2 of the smaller 3" clowns - the ones that look like they have skinny disease - I'll separate and treat later with levamisole once the ich clears and they fatten up a bit more - maybe in another week.
    but everyone is eating greedily, fattening back up, getting active and brightening up.
    lowered the temp to 82F and will lower it to 80F at week's end.

    tossed the RID-ICH.

    I lost 1x ember, 22x cardinals, and 3x clowns to this outbreak, but l am just glad to not lose more of the clowns.

    Thanks for the help, Nick.

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